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Country:International

This is a general discussion forum about petanque. All issues may be discussed here.

World Championships

Posted by: Philippe B) at 2008-06-21 12:16:37
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I just discovered that the Netherlands Petanque Federation has recently decided NOT to organize 2009 after all, for - what seems to be - lack of funds.
I am very disappointed because I was convinced Maastricht 2009 would be THE showcase of a truly multilingual, international and well organized tournament.
Alexander Bauer of the German Petanque Federation also wrote an alarming article on Boulistenaute:
http://www.boulistenaute.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10034

What exactly is the problem?
In WC's, who exactly pays what?

Let's start a constructive, international discussion on what can and should be done to safeguard future WC's.

World Championships

Posted by: Philippe B) at 2008-06-22 20:38:07
Posting has been displayed 1008 times

Meanwhile the official website of Dakar 2008 has a new message (in French):

"Dakar 2008 will probably be the last annual World Championship - following the cancellation of the Netherlands in 2009, the next World Championship will take place every 2 years, so see you in 2010 in ???."

"DAKAR 2008 sera probablement le dernier Championnat du Monde organisé tous les ans - suite au désistement des Pays Bas en 2009 le prochain Mondial se fera tous les 2 ans donc rendez-vous en 2010 à ????."

World Championships

Posted by: Alexander Bauer) at 2008-06-26 18:19:31
Posting has been displayed 1080 times

Hi Philippe,

thanks for your engagement.
Things change. And FIPJP should react.
The time where only 40 nations sent out their teams on the hotel and lunch costs of a hosting federation/association are definetely over.
we currently have now about 78 countries within the FIPJP, 80% of them will always start at the world championships.
This means costs of 800.000 to 1.200.000 EURO (1.2 to 1.8 Million US-Dollars) for the hosting country.
Even the Netherlands with one of the most wealthy petanque federations can not manage this. meanwhile it is nearly impossible for any nation except France.
there are rumours the w.c. will be biannual (once every 2 years) in future - 2008, 2010, 2012, etc. - continental championships may be possible every 2 years (2009, 2011,...) :

""DAKAR 2008 sera probablement le dernier Championnat du Monde organisé tous les ans - suite au désistement des Pays Bas en 2009 le prochain Mondial se fera tous les 2 ans donc rendez-vous en 2010 à ?""
...read at: http://www.fipjp.com/~senegal/

I hope they also will reduce the number of participants. A maximum of 48 should be fair enough.
my suggestions are similar to those of the NJBB of Holland sent out to the FIPJP in addition to their cession of the W.C./Maastricht.
it is important to get a minimum standard of quality for the championships.
see under: http://www.boulistenaute.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10034

best regards,
Alexander Bauer, Deutscher Pétanque Verband

World Championships

Posted by: Philippe B) at 2008-06-29 12:00:53
Posting has been displayed 902 times

Thanks Alexander.

So if I understand it correctly, under the current arrangement, the host country has to pay lodging and meals for all the delegations?

Let's do a simple calculation:
78 teams of 4 players plus one delegate or 78 x 5 = 390 people.
Let's say $100 / night per person lodging, assuming many can sleep with 2 in a room.
Let's say $40 / day for meals per person (cafeteria food, not gastronomic..)
That's $140 by 390 by 4 nights/days = $ 218,400
I agree that's a lot of money, but still far away from the $1.2 to 1.8 million you mention.
What did I miss?

Of course the host country also has to rent facilities, set up the event, etc... but isn't is safe to assume that those expenses can be offset by the sale of tickets and input from local sponsors? And if necessary, throw in another $100,000 for that, which brings us to $320,000.

But anyhow I do agree with your point # 3 that in the future every delegation should be responsible for its own expenses, minus local transfers and part of the event festivities.
Possibly with the provision that some of the players who have a limited budget can stay in people's homes instead of hotels, a common practice in international sports and cultural meets.

That way there would be no need to limit to 48 teams.

I'd like to see the WC as international as possible, from both angles: the number of countries that participate as well as the number of countries that can/want to host it. One should actually reach a scenario where countries are lining up hoping to be the next host country!

Anyone else wants to comment?

Philippe

World Championships

Posted by: Alexander Bauer) at 2008-07-01 16:38:15
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hi,
it is not so simple as you thought, philippe!

already in 1996 the costs for germany/essen (=near dusseldorf) were more than 1.000.000 deutschmark (today around 550.000 euro). today it might be 800.000 to 1.000.000 euro. you forgot a lot of important things like employees, charges for the indoor hall, gala-dinner, additionel costs for vips, marketing products, etc. etc.
holland's njbb abandoned not because of the total costs but because of a leak of 170.000 euros they finally could not disburse. of course - a lot of money could be regained afterwards - but so far the initial costs were simply too high - as it is, in my opinion, for everyone here in europe except france.
the federation of senegal received a sum of 750.000 euro from their 'one-and-only' president (a quite low budget competition without a petanque indoor-hall as i heared). and, of course the main standard costs are higher in europe than in africa. furthermore we could begin to talk about the human rights in senegal and where all this money comes from..... but this is another story.

i also was once a fan of international petanque without any restriction - but after i watched a match india vs. lithuania in pattaya, i changed my mind completely. please do not take it amiss - and sorry for the players of india and lithuania who of course tried their best and were only the most remarkable ambassadors of these kind of petanque-killing selection teams i saw there, but this special game - as one of many examples on that day in thailand, was a real torture and a ridicule for everyone that loves this game and supports our sport. not possible to show that to the media, and destructive for petanque as a sport on a world championship. i was absolutely sure these people haven't played petanque more than 3 or 5 times in their life, they had no clue about technique, tactics and even the most simple rules like not to play with chinese fun balls at a world championship.
So far we need a minimum of a "soft qualification".

as we maybe will have a biannual continental championships in africa, asia and europe, we therefore are able to use them as instruments of qualification.

cheers,
alexander

World Championships

Posted by: Eric Breiby) at 2008-07-02 14:51:10
Posting has been displayed 924 times

08/7/2nd

Greetings,

Yikes, I skim-read the posts regarding the World (Petanque) Championships. It read like any typical futbol or Olympic scandal.

Could it be that money, politics, and scandalous players also inhabit the world of International Petanque?

I hope not. I love Petanque, but as an amateur I am probably naive when it comes to international competitions.

regards,
Eric

lastly, what on earth is a 'Chinese funball'?

World Championships

Posted by: Philippe B) at 2008-07-03 10:55:37
Posting has been displayed 994 times

"Could it be that money, politics, ........"

Eric,
No, don't worry, petanque is (still) too small to be affected by any of those.

It's more about an organization that is stuck in doing things "the way they've always been done", while the world of petanque has drastically changed. And that's where the contradiction comes in: FIPJP wants the game to grow worldwide, but makes it difficult for the "new" countries (i.e. most countries outside France) to host a WC.

Alexander,
Thanks for clarifying the expenses. No question about it that there are only a couple of countries that can afford this as long as the lodging & meals have to be paid for by the host country.
Like you I think a WC every two years is a good move, alternating with continental championships.
And yes, some type of minimum standards must be met. But still I remain partisan to "the more, the merrier", as long as every team takes care of its own expenses.

Numbers:
Last November, in the context of a discussion about the use of languages at Pattaya 2007 on Boulistenaute.com, I crunched & published the numbers of petanque's evolution worldwide. Here they are:

1978:
18 national federations, 6 of which 100% francophone, plus 3 partially francophone (Belgium, Canada, Switzerland).
403,963 licensees, of which 375,603 in France.

2006:
70 national federations, 14 of which francophone.
582,043 licensees, of which 367,247 in France.

Thus in 1978, France represented 93% of all licensees, whereas in 2006 around 63%.

Philippe

PS: for the record, I don't speak for any federation, just as an individual petanque "fanatic" ;-)


World Championships

Posted by: Eric Breiby) at 2008-07-06 18:39:16
Posting has been displayed 1466 times

7/6/08

Philippe,
..understood. Thanks for the clarification. Nice to know it's just FIPJP that is making it difficult for other nations to host. Maybe there will be more supportive organisations in the future that eventually band together or perhaps establish a more cohesive, international support that is not exclusive.

time will tell.

regards,
Eric B


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