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Removing an illegally played ball

Posted by: tom bricca) at 2008-09-13 22:36:36
Posting has been displayed 3271 times

When an oppenent plays from the wrong circle it is very contentious to remove the illegally played ball.

Why?

Playing from the wrong circle

Posted by: Jeff Widen) at 2008-09-14 19:36:54
Posting has been displayed 1162 times

There is no specific penalty listed for playing from the wrong circle, but Article 6 does demand that:

"The team about to throw the jack must erase any previous throwing circles located near the new one."

I foresee two instances of this being possible:

either a player is using an old circle completely far away from the new circle, in which case players from both sides should have pointed out the obvious error well ahead of time;

OR

a previous circle, near to the latest one, was not erased, and as such, honest confusion was responsible for the player throwing from the wrong circle.

Penalties:

In the former case, the boule should be removed if, and only if, it did not disturb any other unmarked boules/cochonnet or if they were marked, and they should be returned to their original positions, and the boule should be alowed for a re-thrown but with a warning to the team. This is in the spirit of fair play as both teams should have directed the player that they were in the wrong circle BEFORE they threw.

In the latter case, I believe the fault lies with the team who began the end - not adhereing to Article 6's erasing of the previous circle - thus allowing for some ambiguity on the field of play. If it was the starting team who threw frm the incorrect circle, a stiffer penalty should be imposed than from the opposing who did not "ignore" Article 6. As such, the boule should be taken back and re-thrown if no other unmarked boules/cochonnet were displaced (or if marked) returned to their original positions.

IF boules/cochonnet were not marked and displaced by a boule cast from a "void" circle - then the penalty should be as follows:

IF it were the team who ignored Article 6 - then their boule should be removed as void. IF it were the team who was not responsible for erasing the circle, then the boule should remain where it was, and a warning given.

Removing an illegally played ball

Posted by: azman abu) at 2009-06-10 11:32:36
Posting has been displayed 464 times

In the latter case, I believe the fault lies with the team who began the end - not adhereing to Article 6's erasing of the previous circle - thus allowing for some ambiguity on the field of play. If it was the starting team who threw frm the incorrect circle, a stiffer penalty should be imposed than from the opposing who did not "ignore" Article 6. As such, the boule should be taken back and re-thrown if no other unmarked boules/cochonnet were displaced (or if marked) returned to their original positions.

Removing an illegally played ball

Posted by: azman abu) at 2009-06-10 11:40:29
Posting has been displayed 1489 times

In the latter case, I believe the fault lies with the team who began the end - not adhereing to Article 6's erasing of the previous circle - thus allowing for some ambiguity on the field of play. If it was the starting team who threw frm the incorrect circle, a stiffer penalty should be imposed than from the opposing who did not "ignore" Article 6. As such, the boule should be taken back and re-thrown if no other unmarked boules/cochonnet were displaced (or if marked) returned to their original positions.

Playing from the wrong circle

Posted by: tom bricca) at 2008-09-25 13:59:47
Posting has been displayed 1085 times

Jeff,

It is a rare day indeed when you need to be corrected.
May I direct your attention to Article 24:

"All boules thrown contrary to the rules are dead"...including "a boule played from a circle other than that from which the cochonnet was thrown".

Perhaps the problem is that the rules do not provide for a specific penalty for failure to erase previous circles.

In every case, the rules are clear that there is no excuse for playing from the wrong circle. If there is any confusion, one needs only to ask the opposition to confirm the correct circles location.

I suppose that the contentious reaction of a person when he sees his boule being removed and called dead is because it "appears" that the call looks as though his opponent was lying in wait and is capitalising on an error that could easily have been corrected before the boule was thrown.

In the event that you find yourself in a contentious game, however, one where the opponent is whinning about feet out of the circle or some such thing, I find that the call has a way of leveling the playing field...

Playing from the wrong circle

Posted by: Jeff Widen) at 2008-09-27 19:23:32
Posting has been displayed 1279 times

Tom:

Article 24? Oh, that's what was on that missing page! (I was given an incomplete copy of the rules and Article 24 was left out) :)

By-jove you are correct!

I have been using rubber shower-mats from IKEA as throwing circles from which I've cut out the centers. The inside diameter matches the largest allowable area for petanque.

By the way, I haven't told my wife about the shower mats, she's been standing on a tiny rubber shower mat all this time! Heh Heh Heh


Playing from the wrong circle

Posted by: tom bricca) at 2008-10-08 01:43:30
Posting has been displayed 900 times

Jeff,

Your man-made circles are contrary to the game. They don't allow for smaller circles to be drawn espescially against "happy feet" opponents.

Still, very few obstreperous opponents complain about "circle" violations.

When you place a man-made circle on the ground you remove my perogitive to: Article 6 Addition; completely clear "it" during the end.

Please celebrate with me the optional "drawing of the circle" with a finger, stick or I don't care what. Let it be a free expression. Even for beginners.

It is basic to our game.

Tom Bricca
707-280-7500

Playing from the wrong circle

Posted by: Jeff widen) at 2008-10-08 10:28:42
Posting has been displayed 1036 times

Tom:

While I deem myself a traditionalist and like to draw the circles; the pre-fab circle serves two major advantages for my particular situation: growth and time-savings

petanque-growth in Detroit demands a spoon-fed approach. Onlookers, not privy to the rules, need to be babied with visual aids to draw them into better understanding our admittedly obscure game.

By using bright red circles to denote who is "playing" and from where - as well as use of tall flip-style scoreboards, and free-standing 2-sided rules/histroy of petanque boards I'm making petanque as approachable as possible.

I only made 2 circles, what you don't see, is that in the other game(s) the players are drawing circles in the gravel/dirt. I have the new players, those who were just walking-by to play on the "rubber circle" piste for efficiency in teaching them the game play.

As for the second advantage: time-savings. Keep in mind that I play during the lunch-hour. That means it takes people 5 minutes to assemble (55 minutes left) and 5 minutes to leave early to get back to work (50 minutes) - in order to play a triplette.

By eliminating the circle drawing, we're getting right down to playing - thus able to fit in a game, maybe even a second game (played to a lower score).

So, as you can see, I do not ignore the pleasures of circle making in as much as I wish to promote petanque growth and maximized game-play with limited timespans.

Thanks,

Jeff.

Playing from the wrong circle

Posted by: tom bricca) at 2008-10-11 22:22:00
Posting has been displayed 1904 times

Jeff,

Well said and nicely defined. Too, it eliminates any controversy of "playing from the wrong circle".

I still argue that "improvements" in efficiency tend to negate creativity. For example, when a man breaks his leg, crutches improve his mobility. But only for a while because the healing process is creative and needs to dominate. Crutches eventually do become a hindurance...in this example.



Tom
707-280-7500


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