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This is a general discussion forum about petanque. All issues may be discussed here.

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-17 05:50:58
Posting has been displayed 2374 times

It is said that the minimum dimension for a purpose built piste is 12 x 4 metres. Well the width is fine but I have worked out that the length should be over 13 metres...

Minimum dead boule area 0.3 metre (x2).

A minimum of 1 metre in for the circle.

Circle diameter 0.5 metre (ring size).

Distance of 10 metres from front of circle to coche.

At least 1 metre from coche to out of bounds line.

All this mounts up to 13.1 metres.

Can someone please tell me why the circle has to be drawn at least 1 metre from a boundary line?


Piste dimension

Posted by: Jac Verheul) at 2011-07-17 07:51:41
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Since a couple of yeras the circle may be drawn against a boundary line. But there must be 1 metre from a barreer behind that line.

Piste dimension

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2011-07-17 14:20:51
Posting has been displayed 331 times

Hi Dave,

I'm sure you're right about the dimensions. I think the fact that interpretation is often needed shows how unclear the rules sometimes are - IMHO long overdue for a rewrite!

Remember too that the dimensions in the rules are the *minimum* dimensions. If you can create a larger terrain, then you can get a much better and more varied game.

I presume the reason for the circle being at least 1m away from boundaries is to give players enough room to play - at least, this would be the case if you were next to a wall or fence, as sometimes happens.

Piste dimension, that important?

Posted by: Petanque.Th Pattaya) at 2011-08-27 06:28:16
Posting has been displayed 315 times

Meters and circles more important than having fun..!
As you will find Petanque Th. as the only club listed in Thailand under petanque.org you can read about us.When we play tripple or double every week, and not listed as a competition, the boule (pork) can be 15 m. or more from the ring, if both parties so agree, and why not? Far more important is the condition of our permanente surface, by so good drain. Not to mention the lightening of the court. 36-38 C nearly every day,- by so we never start before 16 PM, and play until we like ro stop,- my be at midnight.
Think we have forgot to give our fax, and if of Interest: (66) (0) 38248067 Best regards Jostein Setsaas

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-17 13:56:41
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Well that's something I didn't know.

Can the same be said about the coche?

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-18 08:43:39
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Ray, do you mean at least 1 metre away from a boundary or obstacle as they could be two different things?

Someone had said that the circle can be drawn right up against a boundary line as long as there is a minimum of 1 metre from an obstacle.

Piste dimension

Posted by: Jac Verheul) at 2011-07-17 14:18:53
Posting has been displayed 66 times

No, when throwing out the jack, there must be always a distance of 1 metre from the boundary line. You will find the international rules in English here: http://www.fipjp.com/en/rules-texts-downloads.

Piste dimension

Posted by: Colin Stewart) at 2011-07-18 09:24:07
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The jack/circle distance from obstacles comes up again and again when we play. It is my understanding that rules intend for the following:

The circle must be 1m from any obstacle (i.e. can be right next to the boundary line provided it is at least a metre from an obstacle).

The jack must rest at least 1m from an obstacle or boundary line.

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-19 12:45:18
Posting has been displayed 225 times

Thanks all. This still means that a length of 12 metres for a piste isn't quite enough although 12.8 would suffice.

What is the generally accepted minimum gap between games if the pistes are not sectioned off?

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-21 04:50:14
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Colin,

Here's an extract from the rules from this site (not old rules).

(ii) The throwing circle must be a minimum of 1m from any obstacle and from the boundary of the playing area.

This means the circle cannot be drawn within 1 metre of a boundary line.

If this is the case the minimum length of a piste should be 13.1 metres (my initial workings out).

By the way, the level I play at, teams will even sometimes draw a semi circle up against the boards.

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-21 04:50:14
Posting has been displayed 1207 times

Colin,

Here's an extract from the rules from this site (not old rules).

(ii) The throwing circle must be a minimum of 1m from any obstacle and from the boundary of the playing area.

This means the circle cannot be drawn within 1 metre of a boundary line.

If this is the case the minimum length of a piste should be 13.1 metres (my initial workings out).

By the way, the level I play at, teams will even sometimes draw a semi circle up against the boards.

Piste dimension

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2011-07-19 13:19:13
Posting has been displayed 121 times

Hi Dave,

Can I ask for a bit more info/suggest guidelines to follow?

Are you looking to create a terrain that will be used just for friendly/social games?

Are you looking to create a 'club' terrain that will be used for competition play?

Remember that the dimensions quoted are *minimum* dimensions for a single game. Generally, the bigger you can make your terrain, the better the game. There is an assumption that you are going to have a 'proper' pétanque playing surface, i.e. with some variety and *not* a perfectly level 'billiard table' devoid of any features.

Obviously this will depend on the space available, the budget and the likely number of players.

To answer your question: 4m is a good average size for competitions - note for larger events, the organisers will often create a larger terrain, e.g. 16 x 16m for finals. 3m wide is pretty much the minimum for a half-decent game.

I have played on 2.5m wide terrains and 3m terrains where 2 games take place in opposite directions. Both of these are *very* narrow and really only to be used if you have to accommodate a large group in a small space.

When you're too close - especially with lots of games - you get too many boules from adjacent games interfering with other games.

Just as a guideline, my own terrain in Brighton, UK, is approx. 45 x 17m, with some nicely landspaced, attractively curved edges, rather than a plain rectangle. It's wonderful to play on - obviously we're lucky to have such a space available.

Regards,

Ray

Piste dimension

Posted by: David Smith) at 2011-07-19 14:09:54
Posting has been displayed 526 times

It will be for friendly/social, club and local league games.

Minimum dimensions mean money is saved but I agree with you, the bigger the terrain the more variation.

Even if I was skilful enough to make it as smooth as a billiard table I wouldn't. Also pistes change over time with settlement.

I agree, in an ideal world, the more space you have the better, but sometimes you just have to make do with what you've got.

Re piste dimension I just wanted to make sure that I didn't have players turning up and saying 'we can't get a full 10 metres'. If the length is 12 metres it will be under size but at 12.8 it reaches the minimum requirements (for club games and local leagues).

The set up at your club is one of the best I have encountered (hope to visit soon)... and yes you are lucky to have such a space available!

Piste dimension

Posted by: Guy Therrien) at 2011-08-20 15:26:47
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Article 7 - 2
That the throwing circle must be a minimum of 1 metre from any obstacle.


The circle can be drawn or placed againt the line.

So you have 50 cm plus 10 meter plus 1 meter pass the the 10 meters for a maximum of 11.5 meters.

So 12 meters will do.

http://www.fipjp.com/userfiles/file/REGLEMENTS/Official_Rules_of_the_Game_p%C3%A9tanque_2010(1).pdf

Or see: http://www.englishpetanque.org.uk/documents/Official_Rules_of_the_Game_2011.pdf

Piste dimension

Posted by: Dave Smith) at 2011-08-21 11:02:50
Posting has been displayed 914 times

You have forgotten to include another 0.3 metres from dead ball line to barrier. Also if the circle is drawn right up to the line you need to add on another metre (circle drawn at least one metre from a boundary). This equals 12.8 metres in total.

If the barrier is only 0.3 metres from the string then the circle could would have to be drawn at least 0.7 metres from it (still a total of 1 metre).

There was once a team that refused to play a certain way on our home piste as it was only 12 metres in total. This meant they could not get a full 10 metre coche.

Happy petanque,

Dave S.

Piste dimension

Posted by: Guy Therrien) at 2011-08-26 10:58:42
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Sorry Dave but 12m x 3m is the minimum length that will allow both drawing the circle against the line throwing the jack at the maximum distance of 10 meters.
In the modified rules (2010) there is no more mention of the BOUNDARY, allowing the circle to be drawn against the line, so that the length of 12 meters is the minimum length. We gained 1 meter.

The barrier, being outside the marked terrain, does affect the dimmensions of the marked terrains.

Quoting FIPJP: "By decision of the Organising Committee or the Umpire, the teams may be asked to play on a marked terrain. In this case, the latter must, for National Championships and International
Competitions, have the following minimum dimensions: 15m long x 4m wide.
For other competitions the Federations may permit variations relative to these minimum
dimensions, subject to them not being below 12m x 3m."

Piste dimension

Posted by: Dave Smith) at 2011-08-26 12:30:54
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Guy, what I am saying is, if I were to dig out a 12 metre length and fill it with gravel, sand or whatever I wouldn't be able to get a full 10 metre jack if I were to abide by the rules. I could draw a half circle up against the boards to get the desired length (I have seen this done before) or play a jack less than a metre from the string (as long as both teams are okay with it). As I mentioned earlier a team once turned up and refused to play a certain way as the piste from board to board was only 12 metres. I hope this makes things clearer.

Best, Dave S.

Terrain dimension

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2011-08-27 03:23:16
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Hi,

Allow me to make a point - no pun intended :-)

Remember that the dimensions given in the rules are the MINIMUM dimensions for terrains. In general, it's always better to play on the largest space available - rather than stick to the minimum - as this allows for more variation and a better game.

If a team refuses to play on 12m terrain, I think they're being very silly and they are not the sort of team I'd like to play against.

Sometimes players think playing to the 'letter of the rules' is more important than the pleasure of playing in the proper spirit of the game.

Regards,

Ray

Piste dimension

Posted by: Guy Therrien) at 2011-08-28 07:56:01
Posting has been displayed 699 times

Dave,
The rules about the dimmension refers to pistes with strings of 12 meters long and 4 meters wide.If you draw a 50 cm dia circle against the string, you have 11.5 meters left from the circle to the opposite end of the string/piste.
If now you want to add boards, you place them at least 30 cm away from the piste, but that does change that you are allowed to draw the circle against the string.

Regards, Guy

Terrain dimension

Posted by: Dave Smith) at 2011-08-27 04:10:40
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Good point Ray (again, non pun intended).

Piste dimension

Posted by: Gary Jones) at 2011-08-30 09:41:47
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Guy,
It is my understanding that the rules refer to pistes of minimum dimensions of 15m by 4m for international competitions and national championships. All other competitions may be held on pistes of minimum dimensions of 12m by 3m.

Additionally, the minimum distance that a solid barrier may be constructed from the exterior string of a piste is 1m. I beleve you'll find that it was once 30cm, but that was years ago. For this reason the FPUSA (US sanctioning federation)considers the 1m rule to be a suggestion where space permits. Other national organizations may not recognize this exception.

Best wishes, Gary


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