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The what to to and not to do during a game goes here..

Cutting the grass & changin surface

Posted by: Bob Hitchcock) at 2000-07-01 06:57:07
Posting has been displayed 659 times

Have decided to make a dedicated Petanque /Boules area in the garden in place of playing on a traditional English lawn. What material should I use? Pea gravel seems possible? Green chippings? Would like the surface to be as realistic as possible. Would appreciate any advice.

Thks

Anomolies in Rules

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2001-08-28 14:01:07
Posting has been displayed 1830 times

I'm aware there are various anomolies in the rules. A couple of examples:

- Whilst there are rules about what to do under various exceptions, there's nothing about what contsitues the normal order of play - if I'm not happy with my shot, there's nothing in the rules to say I can't simply play another boule and try and do better!
- Whilst the rules state what is valid for a competition boule, they don't say whether or not players have to play with identical boules or not. I'm curious to know whether this was intentional or an oversight?

Any other examples?

Need measurements!

Posted by: Hanna Bernard) at 2001-04-25 20:55:29
Posting has been displayed 2484 times

Hi there,
what are the measurements for a Boule court? I'm building one in my garden but I don't know how big or how long! Where can I find drawings etc.?

Thank you very much for helping me out.

Regards,
Hanna Bernard
Hollister, Californien, USA

what's the difference between hard and soft boules ?

Posted by: faq) at 2000-10-29 13:20:40
Posting has been displayed 2578 times

Comparison with Curling

Posted by: Keith Sloan) at 2002-02-26 05:36:54
Posting has been displayed 3312 times

Because the Brits ( Or really the Scots ) had the chance of a gold medal I stayed up to watch. The good thing was that you got to see the whole game where you can start to pick up on some of tactics which I found fascinating. I got the impression that with curling it is a lot easier to take somebody out that to accurately place the stone i.e. Shooting is a lot easier than pointing. Also seeing people deliberatly not win an end because they would at best pick up one point, but give the opposition the last throw in the next end was interesting as was the tactic of guarding stones and getting stones in the circles but spread as far as possible to avoid double takeouts. I guess if I could play boule at a higher standard i.e Large percentage of takeouts then the tactics would become more interesting too.
Amazing what a few changes in Physical ( stones on ice versus boule ) and changes in rules ( alternate throwing ). Could make to something that is otherwise quite similar.

Re:Cutting the grass & changin surface

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2000-07-02 01:54:12
Posting has been displayed 312 times

Have a look at the Brighton & Hove club site www.pavilion.co.uk/petanque under Terrains which should help with your query.

Regards,

Ray Ager

Re:Cutting the grass & changin surface

Posted by: David Blakeley) at 2000-07-05 00:24:41
Posting has been displayed 321 times



Bob Hitchcock wrote:Have decided to make a dedicated Petanque /Boules area in the garden in place of playing on a traditional English lawn. What material should I use? Pea gravel seems possible? Green chippings? Would like the surface to be as realistic as possible. Would appreciate any advice.

Thks

Look at the Pen-y-Coed web site. They have a free information leaflet on constructing terrains. You can find them under equipment in Hotboule.

Anomolies in Rules

Posted by: Keith Sloan) at 2001-09-03 05:49:44
Posting has been displayed 698 times

I think that not having a rule to cover teams playing out of turn is one of the most frustrating things in Boule. For the French to say that a French person would never play out of turn so therefore there is no need for such a rule is in my view ridiculous. Also the view that such a team is putting themselves at a dissadvantage and you should have called for a measure is also not good enough.

Ray Ager wrote:
------------------------------------

I'm aware there are various anomolies in the rules. A couple of examples:

- Whilst there are rules about what to do under various exceptions, there's nothing about what contsitues the normal order of play - if I'm not happy with my shot, there's nothing in the rules to say I can't simply play another boule and try and do better!

Anomalies in Rules

Posted by: guy therrien) at 2001-12-16 16:01:15
Posting has been displayed 570 times

Ray Ager wrote:
Whilst the rules state what is valid for a competition boule, they don't say whether or not players have to play with identical boules or not. I'm curious to know whether this was intentional or an oversight?

Ray,
I think it was intentional. Playing middle, you would have both a pointer's and shooter's boule (although I am not experienced enough to ascertain that).

Playing doublet, I would have two boules of one and one of the other.
I have seen players play a boule and take it back, substituting another one of the three boules as was fitting the occasion (pointing or shooting). Article 4 does not cover That that type of switching.
IMHO,
Guy

Re:Need measurements!

Posted by: Petanque America) at 2001-05-01 08:55:48
Posting has been displayed 1263 times

Hi Hanna,

The following is from the official rulebook. (you can find them at http://www.beachmedia.com/epetrule.html)

For National Championships and International Competitions, it is 15m long
and 4m wide. For other competitions: the F.I.P.J.P. [and FPUSA]
may allow variations down to 12m X 3m.

That's respectively approx. 45 x 12 ft and 36 x 9 ft. I find it just as important (if not more important) to make a shape, not necessary rectangular, that fits nicely in your garden, is shady during hot California summers, has some drainage, and... close to the bar or kitchen. Remember, there is no pétanque police , so as long as you're having fun, you're O.K. Enjoy!
Philippe

what's the difference between hard and soft boules ?

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2001-09-29 12:13:38
Posting has been displayed 1330 times

Competition boules are broadly classified as either “Hard” or “Soft” depending on the hardness of the metal, measured in kg/mm2 – kilograms per square millimetre. “Hard” boules, typically 120+kg/mm2, are used for pointing whereas “Soft” boules, 110+kg/mm2, are used for shooting, their “low-rebound” characteristic increasing the chances of a “carreau” – the perfect shot whereby the shooter’s boule takes the place of the opponent’s boule.

While it’s generally accepted that soft boules do give a better percentage chance to good shooters, the disadvantage is that they tend to mark more than hard boules.

As a “solution” to this, most manufacturers have developed special low-rebound “semi-soft” 115kg/mm2 top-of-the-range boules which retain the low-rebound advantage of soft boules but with a longer lasting, slightly harder boule. The disadvantage – they cost more! C’est la vie.

Comparison with Curling

Posted by: Mike Venter) at 2002-02-26 05:59:29
Posting has been displayed 1329 times

Hi Keith

I agree the strategy is somewhat similar,however, gravel and ice are two completely different surfaces. Stones are a lot bigger and easier to shoot and also - if I recall correctly, don't they have a team brushing the ice like hell whilst the stone is in motion to move it in the direction?

And besides, you don't need ice to play petanque!!!!! Regards Mike
Keith Sloan wrote:
------------------------------------

Because the Brits ( Or really the Scots ) had the chance of a gold medal I stayed up to watch. The good thing was that you got to see the whole game where you can start to pick up on some of tactics which I found fascinating. I got the impression that with curling it is a lot easier to take somebody out that to accurately place the stone i.e. Shooting is a lot easier than pointing. Also seeing people deliberatly not win an end because they would at best pick up one point, but give the opposition the last throw in the next end was interesting as was the tactic of guarding stones and getting stones in the circles but spread as far as possible to avoid double takeouts. I guess if I could play boule at a higher standard i.e Large percentage of takeouts then the tactics would become more interesting too.
Amazing what a few changes in Physical ( stones on ice versus boule ) and changes in rules ( alternate throwing ). Could make to something that is otherwise quite similar.

Anomalies in Rules

Posted by: Marc Cogan) at 2012-04-17 19:35:55
Posting has been displayed 5958 times

The current French opinion agrees with you, Guy. As long as the boules that a player uses are approved by the FIPJP, they don't have to be identical. Mind you, there don't seem to be any anecdotes along the lines of: "Yes, an opponent tried to have me thrown out of a competition for using different weight/size boules, but the umpires said it was okay."

And a lot of people wonder why, if it's legal, boule manufacturers or retailers don't offer mixed triplets, with one or two balls for pointing and one or two for shooting.

Anomolies in Rules

Posted by: Marc Cogan) at 2012-04-17 19:24:59
Posting has been displayed 5926 times

I don't see any anomaly. The rule is quite clear:

"Article 15 — Playing First, Following Boules
"A player belonging to the team that has won the toss or the last scoring round throws the first boule of the round. After that it is the team not holding the point that plays." (Which accurately translates the French original.)

The key is: "After [the first boule] the team not holding the point . . . plays." If you threw a boule which you weren't happy with---because it didn't get your team the point !--indeed you could throw your second ball (assuming triples, or even your third, if playing singles or doubles). Whether your teammates would be happy with your throwing without consulting with them is another question.

If, however, the first ball you threw gave your team the point, even if you were not satisfied with it, you could not throw another ball without breaking the rules.

If you did, Article 23 would in most cases rule your new boule dead:

"Article 23 — Boules Played Contrary to the Rules
"Any boule played contrary to the rules is dead. Anything it has displaced is put back in place, on condition that its position was marked.

"However the opponent may apply the advantage rule and count the erroneously played boule as valid. In this case, the boule, pointed or shot, is in play and anything it has displaced is left in its new position."

Anomolies in Rules

Posted by: Marc Cogan) at 2012-04-17 19:21:12
Posting has been displayed 299 times

I don't see any anomaly. The rule is quite clear:

"Article 15 — Playing First, Following Boules
"A player belonging to the team that has won the toss or the last scoring round throws the first boule of the round. After that it is the team not holding the point that plays." (Which accurately translates the French original.)

The key is: "After [the first boule] the team not holding the point . . . plays." If you threw a boule which you weren't happy with---because it didn't get your team the point !--indeed you could throw your second ball (assuming triples, or even your third, if playing singles or doubles). Whether your teammates would be happy with your throwing without consulting with them is another question.

If, however, the first ball you threw gave your team the point, even if you were not satisfied with it, you could not throw another ball without breaking the rules.

If you did, Article 23 would in most cases rule your new boule dead:

"Article 23 — Boules Played Contrary to the Rules
"Any boule played contrary to the rules is dead. Anything it has displaced is put back in place, on condition that its position was marked.

"However the opponent may apply the advantage rule and count the erroneously played boule as valid. In this case, the boule, pointed or shot, is in play and anything it has displaced is left in its new position."

Comparison with Curling

Posted by: Helmut Scholz) at 2011-12-28 03:58:50
Posting has been displayed 10185 times

Hi Keith,
Yes I agree with your analogy. If Petanque is played on high level, there are similarities between petanque and curling as far as strategy is concerned. But only on a high level. The best strategy is useless if a player is miles away from the target. And if a shooter has a hit ratio of 95%, he can apply a different strategy than if he had a hit ratio of 40%.

Example of a similarity: The best players in the world don’t try to place their first boule near the cochon because on that level the shooters have a high ration of carreau. So it would be a wasted boule. Instead they try to place it about 30 cm (1 foot) in front of the cochon and if possible in a straight line with it. Very similar to a guard in the game of curling. It’s now an obstacle and not really close enough to shoot. Besides, if you did shoot it there is a chance that the boule hits the cochon and follows it. But this strategy makes no sense for beginners.

Hee is an interesting video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GzAmxRkHcI

Cheers
Helmut

Anomalies in Rules

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2012-04-18 02:48:28
Posting has been displayed 5993 times

I've never come across any serious players who want to play with different boules. If you think that the 'classic' game is Triples, then you're only playing with 2 boules each.

Most of the time the Pointer will point their 2 boules, the Shooter will shoot their 2 boules and the Middle play may do either. Each player will have chosen boules suitable for the position they are playing.

In the case of the Middle player, who may both point and shoot, they would normally choose a middle of the range weight, typically 700g, that is suitable for all round play.

Remember too that the top players only use small variations in weight, 700g as the average, 690 or 680 for shooting, 710 or 720 for pointing. It's usually the less experienced players who play outside the normal limits.

If the Pointer does need to take an occasional shot, they should be perfectly ok with a say, 710 or 720g boules. Of course, if they're shooting all day long, they may prefer a lighter boule.

Anomalies in Rules

Posted by: Marc Cogan) at 2012-04-18 17:39:08
Posting has been displayed 5957 times

Fair enough, Ray. It's true that the people I've read online expressing interest in using more than one size/weight combination competed often in tête-à-tête, where you'll inevitably be called upon both to point and shoot.

Anomalies in Rules

Posted by: Ray Ager) at 2012-04-19 02:54:43
Posting has been displayed 7346 times

If you read the French forums, you may have seen there's a debate about whether Singles would be better played with 4 boules. If you, then perhaps there would be more of an argument to use different weights.

Actually, I'm surprised the manufactures haven't pushed for this - good opportunity to sell 4 instead of 3 boules!


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